I was home this past weekend and talking with my brother-in-law and old man about religion in general and how it relates to morality. My dad is a pastor and he frequently says things akin to “Without God who would give us our morality? Why not kill people and rob and steal? Would there be an objective right and wrong without God?” To which I asked a) what’s the difference between robbing and stealing and b) if there was an objective right and wrong now. A) Good question, b) God gives us an objective right and wrong so because of him there IS right and there IS wrong. “Is killing wrong?” I asked, laying a blatant trap. “Yes, mostly. There are times when killing is necessary and even commanded by God,” he replied being skeptical of my tactics.
“What about when God does it to someone who is innocent, like a child?”…pause….hmmm.
“Ohhhhh shit! Gotcha! Wooo I’m Rick James!” I thought silently and respectfully to myself.
I’ve always felt like God is able to get away with horrible sins but because he’s God we assume he’s much smarter than us and we therefore can’t judge him. Obviously we can’t judge God, he’s God. What about when he breaks his own rule? Is it kind of like a parent saying no candy before dinner but then sneaks a small piece for themselves? It’s a bit hypocritical but the rule was in place for the child because the child won’t eat their dinner if they have candy. The parent will still eat their dinner. God knows who needs killed or taken over and who needs his blessing.
I get why God should be allowed to kill with amnesty, there’s a lot of C-you-next-Tuesday’s out there that need killing, but if that’s the case it means there is no objective right and wrong. God giving us an objective right and wrong from which to base our lives on was my dad’s whole point to begin with.
So which is it? Is something blatantly wrong suddenly not wrong if God does it or is God guilty of doing wrong and is therefore not perfect? It cannot be both without some real mental gymnastics.
Is God always moral? In other words, if God did a bad thing would that bad thing become good because God did it? There are countless times in the Bible where God kills or orders the killing of vast swaths of people. He’s God so he’s good. He’s perfect. He also seems to do things in the Bible that any ordinary man would be thrown into prison for and probably put to death all while being called a terrible, despicable human being.
It was in God’s plan to give the promised land to the Israelites so he had to kill the people already there. This isn’t so hard to justify when reading the Bible several thousand years later and cheering for the Israelites. It’s harder when you imagine God sending a tribe onto YOUR land and killing YOUR family and it being called a good and moral act.
We then transitioned to whether humanity needed God to tell us all those rules he’s allowed to break or if we would have figured them out on our own. My dad’s thought process has always been, “Hey if there is no God then why not just rape and steal and kill whoever? We need God to set those boundaries for us.”
To which I more or less replied: Wait a minute. Are you saying the only reason you don’t do those things is because you’re afraid you’ll be punished in the afterlife rather than just wanting to be a good person? That’s way worse. Also, even now if you knew 100% there was no God then you wouldn’t just go off raping and plundering because you don’t want to spend your short time of existence in prison. I also contended that humans would have come up with those rules even without God because none of us want to be looking over our heads all day waiting for someone to murder us and take our stuff.
I want to believe in an afterlife because that’s more fun than believing the credits roll and the screen goes black but I’m not willing to do the mental gymnastics to get myself there. I envy people who strongly believe the Bible because f**k yeah golden streets, but at the same time I’m pretty relieved I don’t have to explain why dinosaurs don’t appear in the Bible or why it’s ok for God to strike people dead on a whim or even how he kept the salt/fresh water ratio sustainable during the flood.
I am very fortunate to have a father who is comfortable enough in his own beliefs to be able to have these conversations and it never turning hostile. I end up scratching my head a lot but we are both able to laugh heartily at the absurdity of the others beliefs and that’s what family is about. I cherish the conversations with my father, especially the religious ones, no matter how dumbfounding and frustrating the may be.
Story Time with Dave 